GANG OF 4: “WE’RE STILL ANGRY OLD MEN!”
By David Bassin

With a slew of new bands being compared to legendary post-punksters, Gang Of 4, the time seemed right for the members to re-form and discover if they were still relevant to the rest of the world and to themselves. I spoke with bassist Dave Allen, who has been living in Portland, Oregon for the past four years. He moved away from Los Angeles, where he started the World Domination label and performed in the band Low Pop Suicide.

David Bassin: How does is feel to be playing with Shriekback once again?

Dave Allen: (laughter) .....Gang of Four right?

DB: Oh yeah....

DA: Shriekback - maybe we'll do that next! Gang of 4 has been amazing. Sometimes down to earth and other times very surreal. I'm having a lot of fun getting involved with the guys again

DB: What precipitated the reunion? Why now and not ten years ago?

DA: Well, I think ten years ago or more, I was definitely against it.

DB: Because...?

DA: Nostalgia. I have a fear that people see things in sort of a smoky mirror...y'know like everyone goes on about the '50s being so much better a time and you know it's not...there was just as much crime and everyone was on cocktails and valium as far as we know.

DB: But no one talked about it.

DA: Exactly....like disco. I have this worry with music that it's such a new art form, that people have again, this same rosy view of the GO4 and I wondered what it would be like in reality, so I always kind of railed against it. And now I think what's happened, is that over the last few years, things have heated up tremendously, y'know when you have these bands coming through like Franz Ferdinand and the Futureheads and I don't know what....Interpol, I suppose...and they kept getting compared to GO4.

DB: So you felt it was time to go out and show them who the real bosses were?

DA: I think it was actually bigger than that. If you listen to these bands, I mean, I don't hear a lot of G04, to be honest.

DB: Yeah, it's more like a bit here and there, but they're not that much influenced by you guys.

DA: Yeah...and they're certainly not using their forum to be as political as we were. Y'know we took it very seriously, so I think what happened in my mind anyway, is that I was willing to do this again to sort of have people make up their own minds. What happened in Britain, is that so many audience members who weren't even around the first time....they've heard the hype from all the other bands about why they sound like GO4...the reality is, you come to a GO4 live show now and you kind of hold onto your pants, because anything can happen and it's very different I'm sure, from what they expected. We're not these other bands...we're sort of completely set apart from them in many different ways and I think I think the success of the UK tour was such that ,we won over a whole new segment of audience and that the people who knew us anyway, tended to stand in the back

DB: The old folks?

DA: The old folks were impressed that wow, they can still do this. I think if you close your eyes, it sounds the same as 20-odd years ago, which is a challenge we set up for ourselves. We weren't sure we could be 100% effective at this...we didn't want to be any less than that, or else we wouldn't have done the tour.

DB: Was there a lot of rehearsal and prep going into it?

DA: No...on one level, that was kind of scary, y'know...we only began in early January, then started the UK tour round about January 19th

DB: You did what - like a dozen dates?

DA: We only did six actually - the major cities and London

DB: The reviews were great. I was following them here and thinking wow - I'm so glad to see this!

DA: Yeah,,I think it was really good and I'm really happy that [NY Times columnist] Jon Parales was there to capture that underground secret show we did, 'cause that was just like the old days. It was a tiny pub in South London with hardly any P.A to speak of, not much in the way of monitors and we just had to bang our way through an hour-long set, crammed in front of the audience. That was a lot of fun. And then the bigger shows were great too...y'know a bigger stage with the whole crew...it was a lot of fun, but as I say, I think it's sort of planting the flag back in the ground and saying, we're reclaiming some territory here.

DB: Let's backtrack for a second and talk about the original concept of the band when you were starting out. Was it meant to be a party band? Was it meant to be something of a political statement? Where were you coming from?

DA: Well actually Jon King and Andy Gill must take the credit for GO4 Part 1. I actually joined after they had played one show with some other bass player and it was meant to be in the spirit of the whole punk thing...y'know, let put on a show in Leeds and just do it and they did, and post that, that's when the idea started to formulate of what the Go4 could actually be. It came very much from Jon and Andy's background as having known each other for a very long time...they grew up together in the south of England and made their way up to Leeds University doing a Fine Art course together, which was very left-leaning, if not somewhat Marxist in its teaching and I think from there, that began to inform Jon's lyrics and by then I joined..and then Andy, Hugo and I had created a certain sound...we were never meant to be a party band....we partied enough as it was as students at university. I think the realization came pretty quickly that we were doing something pretty unique within this punk rock scene and we wanted to take it seriously and make something of it. We did not want to be the Iggy and the Stooges ripoff, which we thought everybody else was doing....cause it was all three chords and spiky hair, right? We wanted to come at it from the dub reggae and more of an American black feel in a strange way and twist it all into what became the GO4.

DB: For someone like myself, who at the time was reading the NME every week, checking out the newest things from England and then finally hearing the first records, it was one of those wow! moments...yes, they're onto to something very unique....you guys, Joy Division and the other bands who had taken the punk aesthetic to another level.

DA: Yeah, exactly. I know so many people, obviously amongst my peers now, who were blown away when Entertainment! landed. It's kind of interesting, because when you're doing an album like that...when you're in the middle of it, you have no idea what the outcome will be.

DB: You had no idea that this might be something historic?

DA: (laughs) I didn't have my future binoculars on at the time (we both crack up)...I look back now...quite openly, I think it is a masterpiece. It was after we had been on the road for about a year, the press department at EMI gave us a couple of folders - one was red and one was blue - they were stacked full of clippings...these glowing reviews of Entertainment! and our live shows from around the world and then you get the sense that Jesus Christ - you've really delivered a major work of art and you still don't know how it's going to pan out over the years, because who knows - someone may come along and trump you. You know how easy it is to get forgotten, but it seems no one quite managed to do that.

DB: So at that point did you feel that you had something you had to live up to? A new standard to maintain?

DA: I think we felt it, but somewhat subconsciously. There were certainly a few moments of drama during the writing of Solid Gold, but only because we were put into the position by the record label (as most bands are), when you're successful out of the box like that, you're on the road constantly, and then of course they start saying 'when's the next album' and you say hang on - the first one took about two years to write and record and you're saying we have to do everything in six weeks? We didn't really fit well into that mode, although I think Solid Gold is a worthy successor, even though we'd gone in a slightly different direction.

DB: The material you're performing now - are you doing any new songs or is it all old material?

DA: We're just doing all the material prior to 1983, I believe. The bulk of it's from Entertainment, some of it from Solid Gold and there's one song called "I Parade Myself" which is from a later album that Jon and Andy did as a soundtrack to a movie. It's just a song that works really well with the original lineup. But all the other stuff I don't want to touch.

DB: So you're not doing "I Love A Man In A Uniform?"

DA: There is talk of doing it in the U.S. I don't think it was very relevant for the European audiences.

DB: How do you feel about doing that material that you weren't a part of? Last night I watched this GO4 bootleg DVD - have you seen this?

DA: No, I've heard it's out though.

DB: So the first bit is this show from Atlanta in 1980, there's footage from Hurrah in New York and then it jumps to "Dance Fever" [TV show in Los Angeles] (Dave cracks up) and the band is doing "I Love A Man In A Uniform." So you've left the band by this point, Sara Lee is playing bass and Jon's got on these aviator shades and some slick suit and it's like, wait a minute - this is a radical departure for the band!

DA: (laughing) Where have we gone? I think the album it came from, Songs Of The Free, is a really good album.

DB: Bits of it.

DA: Yeah...obviously it doesn't touch the first two. I've been teasing Andy and Jon when we've done group interviews and this subject come up. I look at the floor, the ceiling and look around some more. I mean c'mon - I wasn't on it! (laughs) It's hard when you've left the band and then you listen to the band continuing....it just didn't grab me, I suppose. I left - it was my decision and Andy and Jon went off into a slightly different sound. I think they both look back on this period as not completely successful...to put it kindly. But they were attempting things y'know, and I think that they should get credit for it. Maybe there was too much thinking and not enough animal instinct.

DB: It seemed to be driven more out of marketing

DA: It could have been...to be honest, I feel a little uncomfortable talking about, cause it really has nothing to do with me....it is a strange patch where I didn't play on those records.

DB: When you left the band, was it simply artistic direction (forming Shriekback), or was there something else?

DA: . I did crumble under pressure. The activities, running up through Entertainment...recording, getting on the road...that was all amazing. Then we had to get back in the studio and get Solid Gold done, which was quite an effort.

DB: Did you write that on the road?

DA: It was a mixture of on the road, in rehearsals when we could, trying out songs live sometimes at soundcheck, so it was all very different for us. And then you book time in London, go into the studio and write some songs and that's really not the way to do it. You really can't do it on the old 9-5 schedule, but I think we pulled it off. There are some very interesting songs on that record. Then we had to hit the road again and there was all sorts of weirdness going on - managerial problems, visa problems at the border....some of the road crew got deported in Canada for not having the correct work permits to get back in the States. So that tour became a mess, I went home to London for awhile and never came back. It was a weird time. There were some musical differences, but it was more fueled by exhaustion and over- indulgence, basically. I wasn't as clear-headed as I am these days! (laughs)

DB: So I take it that you'll be wearing more down-to-earth Marxist uniforms as opposed to the slick lounge lizard outfits?

DA: (guffaws) I'm very comfortable in my blue jeans and black t-shirt!

DB: That's kind of what I was expecting.

DA: Jon was wearing some Chinese-looking thing recently, but once he started rolling around on the floor, he looked properly disheveled. Just like the old days. It's amazing just how much energy he's got.

DB: Is everyone playing up to the level you would expect (or hope)?

DA: Absolutely! That was the bar that we set for ourselves during rehearsal - if this is not working, we're just not going to do it. Fortunately, the blueprint is embedded somewhere in the muscle and it all came back very quickly.

DB: Have you played much since the Low Pop Suicide Days?

DA: I have, yeah. I've been consistently playing. I have a dub, sort of hip-hoppy outfit called Squall up here...it's a mixture of guitarists, drummers, DJs, sax and trumpet that we roll out occasionally.

DB: I'd love to hear it

DA: Yeah...we haven't actually done a record, but with all this GO4 interest, there's been a little more pressure to get the album done. It's very cool...more like my Shriekback playing than what I do with GO4. Two of the Lifesavas rap with us occasionally, so we wind up sounding like Tortoise meets Aesop Rock.

(much laughter)

DB: What about the other guys - what have they been doing for the past 20 years or so?

DA: Andy's been really busy with his studio in England, producing bands.

DB: Did he produce the Futureheads?

DA: Yes he did. He produce Michael Hutchence's last album before he died, Killing Joke's last album, he's been busy. So he and I were in good shape all around.

(we digress into a sidebar about working out with personal trainers and the rigors of the road)

DB: Was Jon playing at all?

DA: No, he'd not been singing for some time, but he worked out with a voice coach and now he's great too. There's a great quote from him - was it in the NY Times?, where they're asking him how it feels to be rolling around on the floor and your hands and knees, and they're talking about his age - 'you're 48 now...what do you think you're doing?' He said, ' I think one of the saddest things about growing old, is that you forget how important it is to be stupid.' I think he's absolutely right - I've never given up having a good time.

DB: What about Hugo - the last I heard of him, he was doing A&R for Island.

DA: He got out of the music business altogether and moved to Gloucester Massachussettes with his wife. He's now teaching English at a college in Boston. Rock & roll got in the way for awhile, there. He hadn't been playing for some time, so he really had to get in there and practice. Gang of Four drumming is intense.

DB: I understand there's going to be a new album of old songs?

DA: Yeah...we're out of all our contracts and well beyond our re-recording barriers (you can't re-record your material until after a certain time), so we basically re-recorded 2/3 of Entertainment and 1/3 of Solid Gold and that's the 2005 version of those songs. We did have a bit of a problem with the sound of Entertainment although it stands as sort of a very unique testament to....

DB: The D.I.Y. ethic?

DA: Exactly! The drums sound a bit boxy and everything's a bit dead, so we gave it a new blast in Andy's studio. It's been a lot of fun doing it. Sounds really strong! Then we took all those backing tracks after we finished our version of this new album and gave them to all these people who've been championing the GO4 lately. So Franz Ferdinand, Futureheads, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Dandy Warhols, you name it - they're all doing their own versions of the songs.

DB: Yikes - when do we get to hear this?

DA: . It's a double album and it'll be released in time for the U.S. tour in May on our own label.

DB: I understand Warner Bros is putting a greatest hits album out?

DA: No, they're re-releasing Entertainment domestically - it's been out of print for awhile. Like the Infinite Zero release, it will also have the Yellow EP, plus four songs that were previously unreleased. Alternative versions, plus a live version of "Sweet Jane" that I've always abhorred, but it's on there anyway.

(discussion follows about distribution, promotion, etc.)

DB: So you're living in Portland now - how do you like it?

DA: I love it! It's the best kept secret. Todd Haynes just moved up here, Gus Van Sandt, Charlie Kaufman, The Shins, Decemberists, Dandy Warhols, of course...it's a hot town for creative talent right now.

DB: How many dates are you doing on this tour?

DA: I think it's 21...not that many, but we'll be back later for more. We'll have two nights in SF, two in Chicago, two in NY....it's well organized...that's a bit of a shock! I'm looking forward to Coachella.

DB: I remember when Wire got back together and played here, there was a really nice mix of old fans and younger kids curious about these 'legends.' Are you seeing a lot of the same things at your shows?

DA: Oh yeah....I was really surprised in England....the underground show we played in London was 80% college kids and in the provinces it was nicely mixed...I was really happy with it.

DB: Do you attribute this to the fact that you're being compared to all these new bands?

DA: Absolutely!

DB: So I guess it was right to wait and let the hype build up. You didn't have to do much of anything, really

DA: I think so...all we had to do was to keep quiet and let the media do the talking. I suppose in a strange way, with Entertainment being hard to get and the fact that we weren't doing anything, could have created some kind of demand. I know there was demand from the agents and promoters to get us back on the road, but we had now idea of what that would look like until we did Britain. That was interesting, because we were always bigger in the U.S. anyway

DB: Are there any 'unsung heroes' from the same era as Go4 that you feel should be championed and maybe be brought out of retirement?

DA: Oh my lord.....actually I thought that one greatest challenge to us that never emerged ultimately at the same time in London was The Pop Group....fucking amazing and they delivered an amazing first album. I would love to see that again. As for the modern era, the band that I think had the most firepower like the Gang of 4 was At The Drive In...one of my favorite punk bands. What do you think of this band Radio 4 that's on tour with us?

DB: I haven't heard them yet. What do you think?

DA: Their older stuff seemed a bit too reminiscent of us, but I hear they've moved on with this new album. I don't want another sound alike on tour. I'll tell you what you really need to catch - Menomena. They're from Portland and they're shit hot. It's a trio, but sounds like a six-piece. Very unique and they have an amazing drummer.

DB: Have you thought about writing new material?

DA: No

DB: It hasn't been discussed?

DA: No...it's not even the elephant in the room...it's just not there. That's never been the intention either. If something's not on the agenda, it hasn't been discussed.

DB: Any plans to record the live dates for an album or DVD?

DA: We've had a camera crew with us at all times, actually. We're also talking to a couple of those 'CD Live' companies who sell copies of the performance after the show. It needs to be non-exclusive and I hope we can do it.

DB: Before we end, are there any topics we haven't covered?

DA: Not really....we're still angry old men!